Minutes:
The Leader welcomed Mr Philip Stubbs, Chair of Knaphill Residents Association, who had submitted three questions under Section 3 of the Executive Procedure Rules regarding The Vyne. A copy of the questions together with the replies were before the Executive. The questions, together with the replies from the Portfolio Holder, were presented as follows:
Question 1 from Mr Philip Stubbs
“The Vyne, there are known major faults with the building, poorly fitted solar panels, leaking roof, failed heating system, etc. Will the Council confirm that all faults with the building are rectified by their own staff or responsible third parties and accept ongoing responsibility for the building.”
Supporting Statement
“Knaphill Residents Association (KRA) are aware of the transfer of management responsibilities of The Vyne to Dramatize under a CAT and we, as the residents association, hope this works in the best interest of the users of The Vyne. The Vyne is a vibrant and busy community centre at the heart of Knaphill and all residents value it. This transfer of responsibility does not remove the residents concerns, this CAT is a significant step up for Dramatize and we hope the appropriate Council officers and Councillors will retain a watching brief. As you know the KRA organised a petition which basically asked that any changes to the Vyne and to our community transport will not disadvantage the users of The Vyne. This petition gained 1627 signatures.”
Reply from Councillor Ellen Nicholson
“Thank you Mr Stubbs for your question and thank you for coming this evening. A building condition survey is being completed at The Vyne to give a clearer understanding of the responsibilities under the Community Asset Transfer (CAT) process. The upkeep of the building is being split as per a responsibility matrix with the Council staying responsible for the fabric of the building. Creating a sinking fund from future income generated will enable the community group to set aside funds to pay for future maintenance requirements of the building. In addition, the Council has made some provision within the UK Shared Prosperity Fund (UK SPF) for essential repairs to be undertaken to the community centres to prepare them for transfer.”
Mr Stubbs was thanked for his question and invited to ask a supplementary question.
Supplementary Question from Mr Philip Stubbs
“Will you be sharing that report with us?”
Reply from Councillor Ellen Nicholson
“So my understanding is the building report is being carried out at this moment in time, it should be available within the next couple of weeks. Mrs Strongitharm, would that be able to be shared with anybody who has expressed an interest on a community asset transfer? Is that possible?”
Reply from Louise Strongitharm, Strategic Director - Place
“Yes, I think for those that have formally expressed an interest in a community asset transfer, then I see no reason why that could not be shared with them at that point when it is ready, thank you.”
Question 2 from Mr Philip Stubbs
“The Vyne, can the Council confirm that, on behalf of the 1627 people who signed the petition, the KRA will be consulted on the various steps of the handover of the part of the building being transferred to the NHS and that the current services (such as mother & children sessions) will continue.”
Supporting Statement
“Part of the Council’s plans for The Vyne are to transfer part of the building to the NHS. We deliberately use the phrase NHS and not the name of the owners of the adjoining Medical Centre. It is essential that the current NHS related services, Children & Family Health service, Foot health care, CAMHS, etc are retained. Residents, of all ages, value these services being available locally in Knaphill.”
Reply from Councillor Ellen Nicholson
“Council Officers and Members have been keen to work with KRA, as you know we have had a number of meetings together, on the future proposals for The Vyne. A joint meeting was held in order for KRA to find out more about the provision that Dramatize have proposed, which was generally welcomed by KRA, yourself included and other members of the public who were there. The negotiations with the NHS are still ongoing as we made clear at those meetings. Like yourselves, we were surprised with the mother and baby group being withdrawn from The Vyne and those conversations are ongoing. So we cannot confirm those details of what is proposed for this space at this moment in time, this is an ongoing conversation. Thank you to all those people in the community who have actually signed the petition. I have the petition here, Mr Lalleman gave it to me and it is an impressive document. It is heartening to see the response from the community around this vital resource, thank you.”
Mr Stubbs was thanked for his question and invited to ask a supplementary question.
Supplementary Question from Mr Philip Stubbs
“A week today, next Thursday, the mother and baby clinic will close at The Vyne. This came to our attention when a young mother contacted me on the 7th of March to say there was a notice giving four weeks notice of the closure. I immediately contacted Councillor Nicholson and the three Ward Councillors. As of yesterday, I exchanged e-mails with the NHS lady responsible and Steve May of Woking Borough Council. The NHS don't want to leave The Vyne. They are of the understanding that, with effect from the 1st of April, the back half of The Vyne transferred to the GP surgery. Now the GP people may have done a very good PR job to get their hands on it, I don't know, but there has been a complete breakdown in communications, and the people who will suffer are young mothers not only from Knaphill, but Brookwood, St Johns, Goldworth Park and Bisley, who find that their only alternative for a drop-in session of these clinics is Sheerwater. Now there are limited, and I use the word very strongly, limited appointments at Goldsworth Park, but even the NHS say the room they have been allocated at Goldsworth Park is totally inadequate. You are letting down a lot of young mums and the ones who need that service the most are the ones who will not travel to Sheerwater. I hope the Council can act quickly so that that service does not leave The Vyne or, if it does, it is for the minimum amount of time, thank you.”
Reply from Councillor Ellen Nicholson
“Thank you, Mr Stubbs. So as I said earlier, this was an NHS decision, this wasn't a Council decision. From Woking Council's perspective, we were surprised by the notice of leaving The Vyne and from our perspective as we are in negotiations with the NHS about the space at the back of The Vyne, we would be very happy for the mother and baby group to continue. So I think it is really around ongoing conversations with the NHS group to see if we can resolve this situation, thank you.”
Question 3 from Mr Philip Stubbs
“The transfer of the management of The Vyne to Dramatize is a first for the whole of a community centre. Will the Council outline what their role will be after the transfer of control on 1st April 2024.”
Supporting Statement
“The Vyne is a vibrant heavily used community centre and the aim of the KRA is to retain the vibrance of the much loved community centre. This is a first for Dramatize and we will work positively with Dramatize and we hope that the Council will retain an active involvement.”
Reply from Councillor Ellen Nicholson
“Dramatize are taking over the whole of the Vyne, excluding those areas that we talked about previously that will be leased to the NHS. There will be some changes to the facilities and service offer provided by Dramatize, as is to be expected as it’s a new organisation. However, their intention is to continue to offer a hot meal to former day care customers, alongside meeting their own charitable aims to work with people with Special Educational Needs and adults with learning disabilities. They will safeguard as many of the existing hirers as possible, whilst needing to deliver a viable business model. The UK Shared Prosperity Fund (UK SPF) for community centres will include the Council employing a Community Asset Transfer (CAT) Broker, a new role to the Council, to support the transitional arrangements with new transfers.”
Mr Stubbs was thanked for his question and invited to ask a supplementary question.
Supplementary Question from Mr Philip Stubbs
“Under the last question, I pointed out a breakdown in communication. Seeing that we are looking at a 25 year contract for the running of The Vyne, it would be sensible if we could be given a copy of the service agreement the Council entered into. Is that possible?”
Reply from Councillor Ellen Nicholson
“I think I would probably have to take legal advice from Officers.”
Reply from Louise Strongitharm, Strategic Director - Place
“I don't believe any of them are in place yet. We are happy to share it with the residents association, but at this stage none of the documents have been completed with any of the transfers, they are still very much in negotiations. I don't think there are any signed agreements that we could share with you at this stage, but we could obviously once we get to that stage.”
The Leader thanked both Mr Stubbs for his questions, and Knaphill Residents Association and others who put together the very large petition highlighting the importance of The Vyne. The Leader was pleased a way forward had been found for the centre. Disappointment was expressed that the NHS was looking to withdraw the mother and baby service, and it was noted that the Council would do all it could to encourage the NHS to continue the important service.
The deadline for written questions from members of the public was 12 noon, seven days before the Executive. The next Executive would be held on 13 June 2024, so the deadline for written questions was 12 noon, 6 June 2024.